IN THE MATTER OF VIRGINIA LARZELERE
INSURANCE POLICIES
FACT VS FICTION
The media continues to say that Virginia took out life insurance policies, plotting the murder of her husband. We have looked up the facts for ourselves. The policies were taken out by Norm and Virginia in the normal course of doing family business. The policies discussed here would allow for double indemnity if a person was murdered and an additional $350,000 if the death was an accident for a total of 1.8 million dollars. Norm and Virginia had much more polices then only life. They also had, boat, auto and home owners insurance with the same carrier.
We have read media hype that Virginia took out 7 separate insurance polices that would give the reader the impression she went behind Norm's back and collected policies from whom ever would give them to her. The facts refute this below.
THE POLICIES WERE TAKEN OUT AS NORMAL FAMILY BUSINESS.
DEPOSITION OF THOMAS DUNN
~Allstate
Agent~
NOVEMBER 25, 1991
Agent's Name: Tom Dunn
(page 3)
Q. Please state your name and your occupation.
A. Thomas E. Dunn, I'm an agent for Allstate Insurance Company.
He was once a patient of Norm
(page 3)
Q. And did you know Dr. Larzelere?
A. Yes
Q. How did you happen to come in contact with either one of them?
A. First as a patient with Dr. Larzelere and then though selling insurance.
First contact around end of 1989
(page 4)
Q. And when was that, approximately
A. The end of '89 or the beginning of '90 [A full year before the murder]
The first contact was NOT about life insurance
(page 4-5)
Q. As I understand it, that initial contact did not involve life insurance, it involved automobile, that type of insurance.
A. No, the first policy was homeowners and boat and then auto and life followed that.
It wasn't only Virginia's idea to get life insurance. She was also
dissatisfied with her present agent.
(page 6)
Q. How did you end up writing the life insurance? Was that your idea or was it their idea?
A. Well, probably a combination of both. As an agent, I always try to sell insurance and Virginia has said that she was going to replace all of her policies with the other company.
Q. Was that because of a reason that she told you?
A. Yes. She said that she was dissatisfied with her prior -- at that time, present agent.
Virginia and Norm were BOTH interested in taking out these
policies.
(page 7)
Q. When you spoke with the Doctor or Virginia or both of them regarding the change over in the life insurance policies, where did that conversation take place?
A. It took place over a period of time, both in their office and over the telephone.
Q. And why did it take that amount of time? In other words, what were the discussions if you remember?
A. It was a combination of pretty much what type of policy, why they were buying it, how much they had to spend on the premiums.
Q. Did that seem to be a concern to either one or both of the Larzeleres, the amount of money that they were going to have to spend on the policies?
A. Yes, to a degree it was a concern, yes.
Both to Norm and Virginia were present
(page 8)
Q. When you spoke with them regarding the polices and the switching it over to either universal life or whole life, were both the Doctor and Virginia present?
A. On several of the contracts they were, yes.
Norm was very interested in this policy himself.
(page 8)
Q. Well, from reading your statement, plus other discovery, it appears that there came a time that you recommended to the Doctor and Virginia the advantages of universal life and whole life because of the cash value for retirement and the Doctor seemed very much interested in that and wished he had been involved with that type of coverage for years; is that correct?
A. Yes, that is.
They also discussed getting a policy on Virginia where Norm would be the
beneficiary.
(page 8-9)
Q. At the time that you were discussing with them this policy for the Doctor, was there also a discussion of a policy on the life of Virginia with the Doctor being the beneficiary?
A. Yes, there was.
They applied for 2 policies.
(page 13)
Q. What was the difference?
A. The Doctor was $750,000 and Virginia was $500,000.
Q. Was there a discussion as to why that difference?
A. Not a great deal that I can remember. It mostly had to do with the budget, you know.
Q. There budget as far as what they could afford?
A. That's correct.
Virginia and Norm both knowingly paid for this policy.
(page
13-14)
Q. And where did that signing take place?
A. It took place in the office part of the office.
Q. And how was the policy paid for?
A. By a check
Q. And who wrote out and signed the check, if you know?
A. I'd have to look at my records, but I believe both signed the check.
There was also additional FREE coverage on this policy.
(page
15)
Q. There also apparently was a $350,000 accidental death coverage, right?
A. That's correct.
Q. And from reading from your statement, it appears that was something you added that was not discussed with the Larzeleres?
A. It was probably touched upon during a general presentation as I generally make a habit of, but in specifics, no.
Q. There was no extra amount of money that had to be paid for that coverage?
A. No. It's -- that's built in as far as how we determine the cash value, et cetera.
Virginia was denied life insurance due to her poor health.
(page
15)
Q. Why was the one -- and I understand that the one on Virginia was denied. Why was that?
A. I really don't know. It was though the underwriting process and the underwriters just don't get into it with us of why something was turned down.
The children also had polices on them.
(page 17-18)
A. There were insurance policies on the children's lives.
Q. Who was the beneficiary on the policies on the lives of the children, you remember?
A. The parents.
Q. There also was this policy that we're discussing wherein it appears Jeanette Atkinson [Virginia's sister] was the secondary beneficiary; is that right?
A. Yes, there was.
Q. And what was that discussion?
A. During the filling out of the application, we got to that block of the secondary beneficiary and I said that we would have to put someone in there in case they both died in a common occurrence or a common disaster which it's referred to, and there was some discussion about having Norman's mother and dad as the beneficiary and that -- at that time also Jeanette Atkins' name came up because she had children and she was the most stable.
There were existing policies at this time.
(page 18)
Q. Did you discuss with Doctor or Virginia Larzelere or both whether or not there were existing policies in effect at the time; at the same time that you were----
A. The ones I reviewed, yes.
Q. Did they -- or did Dr. Larzelere indicate to you that those were going to be terminated?
A. Well, he did by when we signed the forms.
What Virginia and Norm did was normal for a family concerned with
stability.
(page 18-19)
Q. During your discussions with the Larzeleres, did it ever appear to you that there was anything unusual or improper going on, such as some motive for this insurance being taken out?
A. No. The only thing was the unusual setting of the circumstance. I asked for an appointment when we first got started at the house and Virginia -- as I would normally sell life insurance. And Virginia said we do all the business in our office and I thought from a professional standpoint that was the way to go.
Q. Would it be a fair statement then that this appeared to be a perfectly normal transaction?
A. Yes.